Linked Discourses
1. The Chapter on the Undeclared Points

With Khemā

Saṁyutta Nikāya
1. Abyākatavagga
Khemāsutta
Linked Discourses
1. The Chapter on the Undeclared Points
With Khemā
Saṁyutta Nikāya
1. Abyākatavagga
Khemāsutta
With Khemā

While staying in Toraṇavatthu, King Pasenadi wishes to visit a spiritual teacher, and the nun Khemā is highly recommended to him. He asks her about whether a realized one still exists after death, and she says this is not answerable. Later he visits the Buddha, who replies in exactly the same way.

Ruta suttaSN 44.1Sutta Piṭaka › Saṃyutta Nikāya › 4. Saḷāyatanavaggasaṁyutta › 44. Abyākatasaṁyutta › 1. Abyākatavagga › Khemāsutta
← Suttas
Vista:

At one time the BuddhaBuddhaEl nombre dado a quien redescubre por sí mismo el sendero liberador del Dhamma, tras un largo período de haber sido olvidado por el mundo. Según la tradición, una larga línea de Buddhas se extiende hasta el pasado distante. El Buddha más reciente nació como Siddhattha Gotama en la India alrededor del año 500 a.e.c. Un joven bien educado y acomodado, renunció a su familia y su herencia principesca en la flor de la vida para buscar la verdadera libertad y el fin del sufrimiento (dukkha). Después de siete años de austeridades en el bosque, redescubrió el «camino medio» y alcanzó su meta, convirtiéndose en el Buddha.Ver en el glosario was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.*The “undeclared points” are a stock series of propositions typically raised by non-Buddhists. It seems they formed a kind of scheme for evaluating and positioning different philosophies, which were assumed to answer them definitively. They are discussed many times in the Suttas, eg. SN 16.12, SN 24.15–18, SN 33.1–55.

Ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.

At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.*The “undeclared points” are a stock series of propositions typically raised by non-Buddhists. It seems they formed a kind of scheme for evaluating and positioning different philosophies, which were assumed to answer them definitively. They are discussed many times in the Suttas, eg. SN 16.12, SN 24.15–18, SN 33.1–55.
Ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.

At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.*The “undeclared points” are a stock series of propositions typically raised by non-Buddhists. It seems they formed a kind of scheme for evaluating and positioning different philosophies, which were assumed to answer them definitively. They are discussed many times in the Suttas, eg. SN 16.12, SN 24.15–18, SN 33.1–55.Ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.

Now at that time the nun Khemā was wandering in the land of the Kosalans between Sāvatthī and Sāketa when she took up residence in Toraṇavatthu.*Khemā was extolled as the foremost nun in great wisdom (AN 1.236); her verses are at Thig 6.3; see SN 17.24:1.7. | Toraṇavatthu (“the site of the arch”) appears only here.Then King Pasenadi was traveling from Sāketa to Sāvatthī, and he too stayed in Toraṇavatthu for a single night.

Tena kho pana samayena khemā bhikkhunī kosalesu cārikaṁ caramānā antarā ca sāvatthiṁ antarā ca sāketaṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ vāsaṁ upagatā hoti. Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo sāketā sāvatthiṁ gacchanto, antarā ca sāketaṁ antarā ca sāvatthiṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ ekarattivāsaṁ upagacchi.

Now at that time the nun Khemā was wandering in the land of the Kosalans between Sāvatthī and Sāketa when she took up residence in Toraṇavatthu.*Khemā was extolled as the foremost nun in great wisdom (AN 1.236); her verses are at Thig 6.3; see SN 17.24:1.7. | Toraṇavatthu (“the site of the arch”) appears only here.
Tena kho pana samayena khemā bhikkhunī kosalesu cārikaṁ caramānā antarā ca sāvatthiṁ antarā ca sāketaṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ vāsaṁ upagatā hoti.
Then King Pasenadi was traveling from Sāketa to Sāvatthī, and he too stayed in Toraṇavatthu for a single night.
Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo sāketā sāvatthiṁ gacchanto, antarā ca sāketaṁ antarā ca sāvatthiṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ ekarattivāsaṁ upagacchi.

Now at that time the nun Khemā was wandering in the land of the Kosalans between Sāvatthī and Sāketa when she took up residence in Toraṇavatthu.*Khemā was extolled as the foremost nun in great wisdom (AN 1.236); her verses are at Thig 6.3; see SN 17.24:1.7. | Toraṇavatthu (“the site of the arch”) appears only here.Tena kho pana samayena khemā bhikkhunī kosalesu cārikaṁ caramānā antarā ca sāvatthiṁ antarā ca sāketaṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ vāsaṁ upagatā hoti. Then King Pasenadi was traveling from Sāketa to Sāvatthī, and he too stayed in Toraṇavatthu for a single night.Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo sāketā sāvatthiṁ gacchanto, antarā ca sāketaṁ antarā ca sāvatthiṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ ekarattivāsaṁ upagacchi.

Then King Pasenadi addressed a man,“Please, my man, check if there’s a suitable (male) ascetic or brahmin in Toraṇavatthu to whom I can pay homage.”*Pasenadi uses the default masculine forms, the significance of which becomes apparent below.

Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo aññataraṁ purisaṁ āmantesi: “ehi tvaṁ, ambho purisa, toraṇavatthusmiṁ tathārūpaṁ samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā jāna yamahaṁ ajja payirupāseyyan”ti.

Then King Pasenadi addressed a man,
Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo aññataraṁ purisaṁ āmantesi:
“Please, my man, check if there’s a suitable (male) ascetic or brahmin in Toraṇavatthu to whom I can pay homage.”*Pasenadi uses the default masculine forms, the significance of which becomes apparent below.
“ehi tvaṁ, ambho purisa, toraṇavatthusmiṁ tathārūpaṁ samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā jāna yamahaṁ ajja payirupāseyyan”ti.

Then King Pasenadi addressed a man,Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo aññataraṁ purisaṁ āmantesi: “Please, my man, check if there’s a suitable (male) ascetic or brahmin in Toraṇavatthu to whom I can pay homage.”*Pasenadi uses the default masculine forms, the significance of which becomes apparent below.“ehi tvaṁ, ambho purisa, toraṇavatthusmiṁ tathārūpaṁ samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā jāna yamahaṁ ajja payirupāseyyan”ti.

“Yes, Your Majesty,” replied that man. He searched all over Toraṇavatthu, but he couldn’t see a suitable ascetic or brahmin for the king to pay homage to.

“Evaṁ, devā”ti kho so puriso rañño pasenadissa kosalassa paṭissutvā kevalakappaṁ toraṇavatthuṁ āhiṇḍanto nāddasa tathārūpaṁ samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā yaṁ rājā pasenadi kosalo payirupāseyya. *āhiṇḍanto → anvāhiṇḍanto (bj)

“Yes, Your Majesty,” replied that man. He searched all over Toraṇavatthu, but he couldn’t see a suitable ascetic or brahmin for the king to pay homage to.
“Evaṁ, devā”ti kho so puriso rañño pasenadissa kosalassa paṭissutvā kevalakappaṁ toraṇavatthuṁ āhiṇḍanto nāddasa tathārūpaṁ samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā yaṁ rājā pasenadi kosalo payirupāseyya. *āhiṇḍanto → anvāhiṇḍanto (bj)

“Yes, Your Majesty,” replied that man. He searched all over Toraṇavatthu, but he couldn’t see a suitable ascetic or brahmin for the king to pay homage to.“Evaṁ, devā”ti kho so puriso rañño pasenadissa kosalassa paṭissutvā kevalakappaṁ toraṇavatthuṁ āhiṇḍanto nāddasa tathārūpaṁ samaṇaṁ vā brāhmaṇaṁ vā yaṁ rājā pasenadi kosalo payirupāseyya. *āhiṇḍanto → anvāhiṇḍanto (bj)

But he saw that the nun Khemā was staying there,so he went to the king and said to him,“Your Majesty, there’s no (male) ascetic or brahmin in Toraṇavatthu for the king to pay homage to.But there is the nun Khemā, who’s a disciple of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.She has a good reputation as beingastute, competent, clever, learned, a brilliant speaker, and eloquent.Your Majesty may pay homage to her.”*Pasenadi was used to having philosophical conversations with his wife, Queen Mallikā (SN 3.8:1.2).

Addasā kho so puriso khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ vāsaṁ upagataṁ. Disvāna yena rājā pasenadi kosalo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā rājānaṁ pasenadiṁ kosalaṁ etadavoca: “Natthi kho, deva, toraṇavatthusmiṁ tathārūpo samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā yaṁ devo payirupāseyya. Atthi ca kho, deva, khemā nāma bhikkhunī, tassa bhagavato sāvikā arahato sammāsambuddhassa. Tassā kho pana ayyāya evaṁ kalyāṇo kittisaddo abbhuggato: ‘paṇḍitā, viyattā medhāvinī bahussutā cittakathā kalyāṇapaṭibhānā’ti. Taṁ devo payirupāsatū”ti.

But he saw that the nun Khemā was staying there,
Addasā kho so puriso khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ vāsaṁ upagataṁ.
so he went to the king and said to him,
Disvāna yena rājā pasenadi kosalo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā rājānaṁ pasenadiṁ kosalaṁ etadavoca:
“Your Majesty, there’s no (male) ascetic or brahmin in Toraṇavatthu for the king to pay homage to.
“Natthi kho, deva, toraṇavatthusmiṁ tathārūpo samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā yaṁ devo payirupāseyya.
But there is the nun Khemā, who’s a disciple of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.
Atthi ca kho, deva, khemā nāma bhikkhunī, tassa bhagavato sāvikā arahato sammāsambuddhassa.
She has a good reputation as being
Tassā kho pana ayyāya evaṁ kalyāṇo kittisaddo abbhuggato:
astute, competent, clever, learned, a brilliant speaker, and eloquent.
‘paṇḍitā, viyattā medhāvinī bahussutā cittakathā kalyāṇapaṭibhānā’ti.
Your Majesty may pay homage to her.”*Pasenadi was used to having philosophical conversations with his wife, Queen Mallikā (SN 3.8:1.2).
Taṁ devo payirupāsatū”ti.

But he saw that the nun Khemā was staying there,Addasā kho so puriso khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ toraṇavatthusmiṁ vāsaṁ upagataṁ. so he went to the king and said to him,Disvāna yena rājā pasenadi kosalo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā rājānaṁ pasenadiṁ kosalaṁ etadavoca: “Your Majesty, there’s no (male) ascetic or brahmin in Toraṇavatthu for the king to pay homage to.“Natthi kho, deva, toraṇavatthusmiṁ tathārūpo samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā yaṁ devo payirupāseyya. But there is the nun Khemā, who’s a disciple of the Blessed One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.Atthi ca kho, deva, khemā nāma bhikkhunī, tassa bhagavato sāvikā arahato sammāsambuddhassa. She has a good reputation as beingTassā kho pana ayyāya evaṁ kalyāṇo kittisaddo abbhuggato: astute, competent, clever, learned, a brilliant speaker, and eloquent.‘paṇḍitā, viyattā medhāvinī bahussutā cittakathā kalyāṇapaṭibhānā’ti. Your Majesty may pay homage to her.”*Pasenadi was used to having philosophical conversations with his wife, Queen Mallikā (SN 3.8:1.2).Taṁ devo payirupāsatū”ti.

Then King Pasenadi of Kosala went up to the nun Khemā, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to her:*The king bows to the nun, just as he would to the Buddha.

Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo yena khemā bhikkhunī tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho rājā pasenadi kosalo khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ etadavoca:

Then King Pasenadi of Kosala went up to the nun Khemā, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to her:*The king bows to the nun, just as he would to the Buddha.
Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo yena khemā bhikkhunī tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho rājā pasenadi kosalo khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ etadavoca:

Then King Pasenadi of Kosala went up to the nun Khemā, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to her:*The king bows to the nun, just as he would to the Buddha.Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo yena khemā bhikkhunī tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho rājā pasenadi kosalo khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ etadavoca:

“Ma’am, does a realized one still exist after death?”*That is, an awakened one, whether the Buddha or anyone else, exists after death, for example in heaven or an eternal state of Nirvana. | Here “realized one” (tathāgata) pertains to any arahant, as at SN 54.12. The Pali commentary says that a “living being” (satta) is meant. However, tathāgata and satta are exact verbal parallels: tathā (“real”) + gata (“come to the state of”) and sa (“real”) + tta (“state of”). Thus it seems likely that this was originally intended as a mere verbal gloss to explain the compound. That it does not mean just any sentient being is established at SN 22.86:1.5.

“kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“Ma’am, does a realized one still exist after death?”*That is, an awakened one, whether the Buddha or anyone else, exists after death, for example in heaven or an eternal state of Nirvana. | Here “realized one” (tathāgata) pertains to any arahant, as at SN 54.12. The Pali commentary says that a “living being” (satta) is meant. However, tathāgata and satta are exact verbal parallels: tathā (“real”) + gata (“come to the state of”) and sa (“real”) + tta (“state of”). Thus it seems likely that this was originally intended as a mere verbal gloss to explain the compound. That it does not mean just any sentient being is established at SN 22.86:1.5.
“kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“Ma’am, does a realized one still exist after death?”*That is, an awakened one, whether the Buddha or anyone else, exists after death, for example in heaven or an eternal state of Nirvana. | Here “realized one” (tathāgata) pertains to any arahant, as at SN 54.12. The Pali commentary says that a “living being” (satta) is meant. However, tathāgata and satta are exact verbal parallels: tathā (“real”) + gata (“come to the state of”) and sa (“real”) + tta (“state of”). Thus it seems likely that this was originally intended as a mere verbal gloss to explain the compound. That it does not mean just any sentient being is established at SN 22.86:1.5.“kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“Great king, this has not been declared by the Buddha.”

“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“Great king, this has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā:
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“Great king, this has not been declared by the Buddha.”“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“Well then, does a realized one no longer exist after death?”*A sage ceases to exist at the time of death. This assumes there is an enduring “self” that is done away with.

“Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“Well then, does a realized one no longer exist after death?”*A sage ceases to exist at the time of death. This assumes there is an enduring “self” that is done away with.
“Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“Well then, does a realized one no longer exist after death?”*A sage ceases to exist at the time of death. This assumes there is an enduring “self” that is done away with.“Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”

“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā: ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā: ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“Well then, does a realized one both exist and not exist after death?”*This kind of “both A and not A” statement is not meant to be paradoxical or mystical. Rather, they represent some state that combines elements of both. For example, their body does not exist but their mind does.

“Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“Well then, does a realized one both exist and not exist after death?”*This kind of “both A and not A” statement is not meant to be paradoxical or mystical. Rather, they represent some state that combines elements of both. For example, their body does not exist but their mind does.
“Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“Well then, does a realized one both exist and not exist after death?”*This kind of “both A and not A” statement is not meant to be paradoxical or mystical. Rather, they represent some state that combines elements of both. For example, their body does not exist but their mind does.“Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?

“This has not been declared by the Buddha.”

“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā: ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“This has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā:
‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“This has not been declared by the Buddha.”“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā: ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“Well then, does a realized one neither exist nor not exist after death?”*Likewise, “neither A nor not A” is not meant to be a paradox, but to indicate something that cannot be characterized by the original term. For example, a sage persists after death in a subtle state that is not what we normally consider existence.

“Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti.

“Well then, does a realized one neither exist nor not exist after death?”*Likewise, “neither A nor not A” is not meant to be a paradox, but to indicate something that cannot be characterized by the original term. For example, a sage persists after death in a subtle state that is not what we normally consider existence.
“Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti.

“Well then, does a realized one neither exist nor not exist after death?”*Likewise, “neither A nor not A” is not meant to be a paradox, but to indicate something that cannot be characterized by the original term. For example, a sage persists after death in a subtle state that is not what we normally consider existence.“Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti.

“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”

“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā: ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”
“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā:
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“This too has not been declared by the Buddha.”“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā: ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.

“Ma’am, when asked these questions, you saythat this has not been declared by the Buddha.What’s the cause, what’s the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha?”

“‘Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti, iti puṭṭhā samānā: ‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā—hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā: ‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā—na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā: ‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā—hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā: ‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā—neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. Ko nu kho, ayye, hetu, ko paccayo yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?

“Ma’am, when asked these questions, you say
“‘Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti, iti puṭṭhā samānā:
that this has not been declared by the Buddha.
‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā—
hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.
‘Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā:
‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā—
na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.
‘Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā:
‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā—
hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.
‘Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā:
‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā—
neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.
What’s the cause, what’s the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha?”
Ko nu kho, ayye, hetu, ko paccayo yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?

“Ma’am, when asked these questions, you say“‘Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti, iti puṭṭhā samānā: that this has not been declared by the Buddha.‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā—hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ panayye, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā: ‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā—na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ nu kho, ayye, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā: ‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, bhagavatā—hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. ‘Kiṁ panayye, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭhā samānā: ‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ bhagavatā—neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. What’s the cause, what’s the reason why this has not been declared by the Buddha?”Ko nu kho, ayye, hetu, ko paccayo yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?

“Well then, great king, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.What do you think, great king?

“Tena hi, mahārāja, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja,

“Well then, great king, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.
“Tena hi, mahārāja, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi.
What do you think, great king?
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja,

“Well then, great king, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.“Tena hi, mahārāja, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi. What do you think, great king?Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja,

Do you have any accountant or finger-tallier or reckoner who can count the grains of sand in the Ganges, that is,*Accountant (gaṇaka), finger-tallier (muddika), and reckoner (saṅkhāyako) are terms for the job that used to be called “computer”.how many grains of sand there are, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of grains of sand?”

atthi te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti gaṅgāya vālukaṁ gaṇetuṁ—*vālukaṁ → vālikaṁ (bj, sya-all, km)ettakā vālukā iti vā, ettakāni vālukasatāni iti vā, ettakāni vālukasahassāni iti vā, ettakāni vālukasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?

Do you have any accountant or finger-tallier or reckoner who can count the grains of sand in the Ganges, that is,*Accountant (gaṇaka), finger-tallier (muddika), and reckoner (saṅkhāyako) are terms for the job that used to be called “computer”.
atthi te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti gaṅgāya vālukaṁ gaṇetuṁ—*vālukaṁ → vālikaṁ (bj, sya-all, km)
how many grains of sand there are, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of grains of sand?”
ettakā vālukā iti vā, ettakāni vālukasatāni iti vā, ettakāni vālukasahassāni iti vā, ettakāni vālukasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?

Do you have any accountant or finger-tallier or reckoner who can count the grains of sand in the Ganges, that is,*Accountant (gaṇaka), finger-tallier (muddika), and reckoner (saṅkhāyako) are terms for the job that used to be called “computer”.atthi te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti gaṅgāya vālukaṁ gaṇetuṁ—*vālukaṁ → vālikaṁ (bj, sya-all, km)how many grains of sand there are, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of grains of sand?”ettakā vālukā iti vā, ettakāni vālukasatāni iti vā, ettakāni vālukasahassāni iti vā, ettakāni vālukasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?

“No, ma’am.”

“No hetaṁ, ayye”.

“No, ma’am.”
“No hetaṁ, ayye”.

“No, ma’am.”“No hetaṁ, ayye”.

“Do you have any accountant or finger-tallier or reckoner who can count the water in the ocean, that is,how many gallons of water there are, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of gallons of water?”

“Atthi pana te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti mahāsamudde udakaṁ gaṇetuṁ—ettakāni udakāḷhakāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasatāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasahassāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?

“Do you have any accountant or finger-tallier or reckoner who can count the water in the ocean, that is,
“Atthi pana te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti mahāsamudde udakaṁ gaṇetuṁ—
how many gallons of water there are, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of gallons of water?”
ettakāni udakāḷhakāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasatāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasahassāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?

“Do you have any accountant or finger-tallier or reckoner who can count the water in the ocean, that is,“Atthi pana te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti mahāsamudde udakaṁ gaṇetuṁ—how many gallons of water there are, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of gallons of water?”ettakāni udakāḷhakāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasatāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasahassāni iti vā, ettakāni udakāḷhakasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?

“No, ma’am.Why is that?Because the ocean is deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom.”

“No hetaṁ, ayye”. “Taṁ kissa hetu”? “Mahāyye, samuddo gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho”ti.

“No, ma’am.
“No hetaṁ, ayye”.
Why is that?
“Taṁ kissa hetu”?
Because the ocean is deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom.”
“Mahāyye, samuddo gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho”ti.

“No, ma’am.“No hetaṁ, ayye”. Why is that?“Taṁ kissa hetu”? Because the ocean is deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom.”“Mahāyye, samuddo gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho”ti.

“In the same way, great king, any form by which a realized one might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of form. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,like the ocean.To say that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists: none of these apply.

“Evameva kho, mahārāja, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. Rūpasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.

“In the same way, great king, any form by which a realized one might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.
“Evameva kho, mahārāja, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ.
A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of form. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,
Rūpasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—
like the ocean.
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.
To say that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists: none of these apply.
‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.

“In the same way, great king, any form by which a realized one might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.“Evameva kho, mahārāja, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of form. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,Rūpasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—like the ocean.seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. To say that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists: none of these apply.‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.

Any feeling …perception …choices …consciousness by which a realized one might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of consciousness. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,like the ocean.To say that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists: none of these apply.”

Yāya vedanāya tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, sā vedanā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā. Vedanāsaṅkhāyavimutto, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti. Yāya saññāya tathāgataṁ …pe… yehi saṅkhārehi tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, te saṅkhārā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā. Saṅkhārasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti. Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. Viññāṇasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upetī”ti.

Any feeling …
Yāya vedanāya tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, sā vedanā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā.
Vedanāsaṅkhāyavimutto, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.
‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.
perception …
Yāya saññāya tathāgataṁ …pe…
choices …
yehi saṅkhārehi tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, te saṅkhārā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā.
Saṅkhārasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.
‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.
consciousness by which a realized one might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.
Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ.
A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of consciousness. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,
Viññāṇasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—
like the ocean.
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.
To say that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists: none of these apply.”
‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upetī”ti.

Any feeling …Yāya vedanāya tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, sā vedanā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā. Vedanāsaṅkhāyavimutto, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti. perception …Yāya saññāya tathāgataṁ …pe… choices …yehi saṅkhārehi tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, te saṅkhārā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā. Saṅkhārasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti. consciousness by which a realized one might be described has been cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of consciousness. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,Viññāṇasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—like the ocean.seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. To say that after death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists: none of these apply.”‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upetī”ti.

Then King Pasenadi approved and agreed with what the nun Khemā said. Then he rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled her, keeping her on his right, before leaving.

Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo khemāya bhikkhuniyā bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmi.

Then King Pasenadi approved and agreed with what the nun Khemā said. Then he rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled her, keeping her on his right, before leaving.
Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo khemāya bhikkhuniyā bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmi.

Then King Pasenadi approved and agreed with what the nun Khemā said. Then he rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled her, keeping her on his right, before leaving.Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo khemāya bhikkhuniyā bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmi.

Then on a later occasion King Pasenadi of Kosala went up to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. He asked the Buddha exactly the same questions he had asked the nun Khemā, and received the same answers.

Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo aparena samayena yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho rājā pasenadi kosalo bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “Kiṁ pana, bhante, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā: ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “Kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā: ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “Kiṁ pana, bhante, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā: ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “‘Kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā—hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi …pe…. “‘Kiṁ pana, bhante, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā—neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. Ko nu kho, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?

Then on a later occasion King Pasenadi of Kosala went up to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. He asked the Buddha exactly the same questions he had asked the nun Khemā, and received the same answers.
Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo aparena samayena yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho rājā pasenadi kosalo bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
“kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā:
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“Kiṁ pana, bhante, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā:
‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“Kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā:
‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“Kiṁ pana, bhante, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti?
“Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā:
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno:
‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā—hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi …pe….
“‘Kiṁ pana, bhante, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno:
‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā—
neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi.
Ko nu kho, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?

Then on a later occasion King Pasenadi of Kosala went up to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. He asked the Buddha exactly the same questions he had asked the nun Khemā, and received the same answers.Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo aparena samayena yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho rājā pasenadi kosalo bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “Kiṁ pana, bhante, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā: ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “Kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā: ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “Kiṁ pana, bhante, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti? “Etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā: ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. “‘Kiṁ nu kho, bhante, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, mahārāja, mayā—hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi …pe…. “‘Kiṁ pana, bhante, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti iti puṭṭho samāno: ‘etampi kho, mahārāja, abyākataṁ mayā—neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vadesi. Ko nu kho, bhante, hetu, ko paccayo, yenetaṁ abyākataṁ bhagavatā”ti?

“Tena hi, mahārāja, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja, atthi te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti gaṅgāya vālukaṁ gaṇetuṁ—ettakā vālukā iti vā …pe… ettakāni vālukasatasahassāni iti vā”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Atthi pana te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti mahāsamudde udakaṁ gaṇetuṁ—ettakāni udakāḷhakāni iti vā …pe… ettakāni udakāḷhakasatasahassāni iti vā”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Taṁ kissa hetu”? “Mahā, bhante, samuddo gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho.

“Tena hi, mahārāja, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi.
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja, atthi te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti gaṅgāya vālukaṁ gaṇetuṁ—
ettakā vālukā iti vā …pe… ettakāni vālukasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Atthi pana te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti mahāsamudde udakaṁ gaṇetuṁ—
ettakāni udakāḷhakāni iti vā …pe… ettakāni udakāḷhakasatasahassāni iti vā”ti?
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Taṁ kissa hetu”?
“Mahā, bhante, samuddo gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho.

“Tena hi, mahārāja, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, mahārāja, atthi te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti gaṅgāya vālukaṁ gaṇetuṁ—ettakā vālukā iti vā …pe… ettakāni vālukasatasahassāni iti vā”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Atthi pana te koci gaṇako vā muddiko vā saṅkhāyako vā yo pahoti mahāsamudde udakaṁ gaṇetuṁ—ettakāni udakāḷhakāni iti vā …pe… ettakāni udakāḷhakasatasahassāni iti vā”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Taṁ kissa hetu”? “Mahā, bhante, samuddo gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho.

Evameva kho, mahārāja, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. Rūpasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti. Yāya vedanāya …pe… yāya saññāya …pe… yehi saṅkhārehi …pe….

Evameva kho, mahārāja, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ.
Rūpasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.
‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti …pe…
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti.
Yāya vedanāya …pe…
yāya saññāya …pe… yehi saṅkhārehi …pe….

Evameva kho, mahārāja, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. Rūpasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti. Yāya vedanāya …pe… yāya saññāya …pe… yehi saṅkhārehi …pe….

Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. Viññāṇasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upetī”ti.

Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ.
Viññāṇasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo.
‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upetī”ti.

Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya, taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. Viññāṇasaṅkhāyavimutto kho, mahārāja, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāho—seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. ‘Hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upeti, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’tipi na upetī”ti.

He said, “It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing!How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!*Text has virodhayissati (“contradict”), wheras AN 11.7:10.2 has variant viggayhissati (“conflict”).This one time I went to the nun Khemā and asked her about this matter.And she explained it to me with these words and phrases, just like the Buddha.It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing!How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!

“Acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante. Yatra hi nāma satthu ceva sāvikāya ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati, samessati, na virodhayissati yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ. *satthu ceva → satthuno ceva (bj); satthuno (pts1ed) | virodhayissati → vihāyissati (bj, sya-all, km); vigāyissati (mr)Ekamidāhaṁ, bhante, samayaṁ khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ upasaṅkamitvā etamatthaṁ apucchiṁ. Sāpi me ayyā etehi padehi etehi byañjanehi etamatthaṁ byākāsi, seyyathāpi bhagavā. Acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante. Yatra hi nāma satthu ceva sāvikāya ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati, samessati, na virodhayissati yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ.

He said, “It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing!
“Acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante.
How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!*Text has virodhayissati (“contradict”), wheras AN 11.7:10.2 has variant viggayhissati (“conflict”).
Yatra hi nāma satthu ceva sāvikāya ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati, samessati, na virodhayissati yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ. *satthu ceva → satthuno ceva (bj); satthuno (pts1ed) | virodhayissati → vihāyissati (bj, sya-all, km); vigāyissati (mr)
This one time I went to the nun Khemā and asked her about this matter.
Ekamidāhaṁ, bhante, samayaṁ khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ upasaṅkamitvā etamatthaṁ apucchiṁ.
And she explained it to me with these words and phrases, just like the Buddha.
Sāpi me ayyā etehi padehi etehi byañjanehi etamatthaṁ byākāsi, seyyathāpi bhagavā.
It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing!
Acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante.
How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!
Yatra hi nāma satthu ceva sāvikāya ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati, samessati, na virodhayissati yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ.

He said, “It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing!“Acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante. How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!*Text has virodhayissati (“contradict”), wheras AN 11.7:10.2 has variant viggayhissati (“conflict”).Yatra hi nāma satthu ceva sāvikāya ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati, samessati, na virodhayissati yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ. *satthu ceva → satthuno ceva (bj); satthuno (pts1ed) | virodhayissati → vihāyissati (bj, sya-all, km); vigāyissati (mr)This one time I went to the nun Khemā and asked her about this matter.Ekamidāhaṁ, bhante, samayaṁ khemaṁ bhikkhuniṁ upasaṅkamitvā etamatthaṁ apucchiṁ. And she explained it to me with these words and phrases, just like the Buddha.Sāpi me ayyā etehi padehi etehi byañjanehi etamatthaṁ byākāsi, seyyathāpi bhagavā. It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing!Acchariyaṁ, bhante, abbhutaṁ, bhante. How the meaning and the phrasing of the teacher and the disciple fit together and agree without contradiction when it comes to the chief matter!Yatra hi nāma satthu ceva sāvikāya ca atthena attho byañjanena byañjanaṁ saṁsandissati, samessati, na virodhayissati yadidaṁ aggapadasmiṁ.

Well, now, sir, I must go.I have many duties, and much to do.”

Handa dāni mayaṁ, bhante, gacchāma. Bahukiccā mayaṁ bahukaraṇīyā”ti.

Well, now, sir, I must go.
Handa dāni mayaṁ, bhante, gacchāma.
I have many duties, and much to do.”
Bahukiccā mayaṁ bahukaraṇīyā”ti.

Well, now, sir, I must go.Handa dāni mayaṁ, bhante, gacchāma. I have many duties, and much to do.”Bahukiccā mayaṁ bahukaraṇīyā”ti.

“Please, great king, go at your convenience.”

“Yassadāni tvaṁ, mahārāja, kālaṁ maññasī”ti.

“Please, great king, go at your convenience.”
“Yassadāni tvaṁ, mahārāja, kālaṁ maññasī”ti.

“Please, great king, go at your convenience.”“Yassadāni tvaṁ, mahārāja, kālaṁ maññasī”ti.

Then King Pasenadi approved and agreed with what the Buddha said. Then he rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled him, keeping him on his right, before leaving.

Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmīti.

Then King Pasenadi approved and agreed with what the Buddha said. Then he rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled him, keeping him on his right, before leaving.
Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmīti.

Then King Pasenadi approved and agreed with what the Buddha said. Then he rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled him, keeping him on his right, before leaving.Atha kho rājā pasenadi kosalo bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinanditvā anumoditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā padakkhiṇaṁ katvā pakkāmīti.

Paṭhamaṁ.

Paṭhamaṁ.

Paṭhamaṁ.

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