With Vajjiyamāhita

Then the householder Vajjiyamāhita left Sāvatthī in the middle of the day to see the Buddha.Then it occurred to him,“It’s the wrong time to see the Buddha,as he’s in retreat.And it’s the wrong time to see the esteemed mendicants,as they’re in retreat.Why don’t I visit the monastery of the wanderers of other religions?”

Atha kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati divā divassa campāya nikkhami bhagavantaṁ dassanāya. Atha kho vajjiyamāhitassa gahapatissa etadahosi: “akālo kho tāva bhagavantaṁ dassanāya. Paṭisallīno bhagavā. Manobhāvanīyānampi bhikkhūnaṁ akālo dassanāya. Paṭisallīnā manobhāvanīyāpi bhikkhū. Yannūnāhaṁ yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkameyyan”ti.

Then the householder Vajjiyamāhita left Sāvatthī in the middle of the day to see the Buddha.Atha kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati divā divassa campāya nikkhami bhagavantaṁ dassanāya. Then it occurred to him,Atha kho vajjiyamāhitassa gahapatissa etadahosi: “It’s the wrong time to see the Buddha,“akālo kho tāva bhagavantaṁ dassanāya. as he’s in retreat.Paṭisallīno bhagavā. And it’s the wrong time to see the esteemed mendicants,Manobhāvanīyānampi bhikkhūnaṁ akālo dassanāya. as they’re in retreat.Paṭisallīnā manobhāvanīyāpi bhikkhū. Why don’t I visit the monastery of the wanderers of other religions?”Yannūnāhaṁ yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkameyyan”ti.

Then he went to the monastery of the wanderers of other religions.Now at that time, the wanderers of other religions had come together, making an uproar, a colossal racket as they sat and talked about all kinds of low topics.

Atha kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkami. Tena kho pana samayena te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā saṅgamma samāgamma unnādino uccāsaddamahāsaddā anekavihitaṁ tiracchānakathaṁ kathentā nisinnā honti.

Then he went to the monastery of the wanderers of other religions.Atha kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkami. Now at that time, the wanderers of other religions had come together, making an uproar, a colossal racket as they sat and talked about all kinds of low topics.Tena kho pana samayena te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā saṅgamma samāgamma unnādino uccāsaddamahāsaddā anekavihitaṁ tiracchānakathaṁ kathentā nisinnā honti.

They saw Vajjiyamāhita coming off in the distance, and stopped each other, saying,“Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound.The householder Vajjiyamāhita, a disciple of the ascetic Gotama, is coming into our monastery.He is included among the white-clothed lay disciples of the ascetic Gotama, who is residing near Campā.Such venerables like the quiet, are educated to be quiet, and praise the quiet.Hopefully if he sees that our assembly is quiet he’ll see fit to approach.”

Addasaṁsu kho te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā vajjiyamāhitaṁ gahapatiṁ dūratova āgacchantaṁ. Disvāna aññamaññaṁ saṇṭhāpesuṁ: “appasaddā bhonto hontu. Mā bhonto saddamakattha. Ayaṁ vajjiyamāhito gahapati āgacchati samaṇassa gotamassa sāvako. Yāvatā kho pana samaṇassa gotamassa sāvakā gihī odātavasanā campāyaṁ paṭivasanti, ayaṁ tesaṁ aññataro vajjiyamāhito gahapati. Appasaddakāmā kho pana te āyasmanto appasaddavinītā appasaddassa vaṇṇavādino. Appeva nāma appasaddaṁ parisaṁ viditvā upasaṅkamitabbaṁ maññeyyā”ti.

They saw Vajjiyamāhita coming off in the distance, and stopped each other, saying,Addasaṁsu kho te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā vajjiyamāhitaṁ gahapatiṁ dūratova āgacchantaṁ. Disvāna aññamaññaṁ saṇṭhāpesuṁ: “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound.“appasaddā bhonto hontu. Mā bhonto saddamakattha. The householder Vajjiyamāhita, a disciple of the ascetic Gotama, is coming into our monastery.Ayaṁ vajjiyamāhito gahapati āgacchati samaṇassa gotamassa sāvako. He is included among the white-clothed lay disciples of the ascetic Gotama, who is residing near Campā.Yāvatā kho pana samaṇassa gotamassa sāvakā gihī odātavasanā campāyaṁ paṭivasanti, ayaṁ tesaṁ aññataro vajjiyamāhito gahapati. Such venerables like the quiet, are educated to be quiet, and praise the quiet.Appasaddakāmā kho pana te āyasmanto appasaddavinītā appasaddassa vaṇṇavādino. Hopefully if he sees that our assembly is quiet he’ll see fit to approach.”Appeva nāma appasaddaṁ parisaṁ viditvā upasaṅkamitabbaṁ maññeyyā”ti.

Then those wanderers of other religions fell silent.Then Vajjiyamāhita went up to them, and exchanged greetings with the wanderers there.When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. The wanderers said to him:

Atha kho te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā tuṇhī ahesuṁ. Atha kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati yena te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho vajjiyamāhitaṁ gahapatiṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā etadavocuṁ:

Then those wanderers of other religions fell silent.Atha kho te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā tuṇhī ahesuṁ. Then Vajjiyamāhita went up to them, and exchanged greetings with the wanderers there.Atha kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati yena te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ sammodi. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. The wanderers said to him:Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho vajjiyamāhitaṁ gahapatiṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā etadavocuṁ:

“No, sirs, the Buddha does not criticize all forms of mortification. Nor does he categorically condemn and denounce those fervent mortifiers who live rough.The Buddha criticizes where it is due, and praises where it is due.In doing so he is one who speaks after analyzing the question,and is not one-sided on this point.”

“Na kho, bhante, bhagavā sabbaṁ tapaṁ garahati napi sabbaṁ tapassiṁ lūkhājīviṁ ekaṁsena upakkosati upavadati. Gārayhaṁ kho, bhante, bhagavā garahati, pasaṁsitabbaṁ pasaṁsati. Gārayhaṁ kho pana, bhante, bhagavā garahanto pasaṁsitabbaṁ pasaṁsanto vibhajjavādo bhagavā. Na so bhagavā ettha ekaṁsavādo”ti.

“No, sirs, the Buddha does not criticize all forms of mortification. Nor does he categorically condemn and denounce those fervent mortifiers who live rough.“Na kho, bhante, bhagavā sabbaṁ tapaṁ garahati napi sabbaṁ tapassiṁ lūkhājīviṁ ekaṁsena upakkosati upavadati. The Buddha criticizes where it is due, and praises where it is due.Gārayhaṁ kho, bhante, bhagavā garahati, pasaṁsitabbaṁ pasaṁsati. In doing so he is one who speaks after analyzing the question,Gārayhaṁ kho pana, bhante, bhagavā garahanto pasaṁsitabbaṁ pasaṁsanto vibhajjavādo bhagavā. and is not one-sided on this point.”Na so bhagavā ettha ekaṁsavādo”ti.

When he said this, one of the wanderers said to him,“Hold on, householder! That ascetic Gotama who you praise is an exterminator who refrains from making statements.”

Evaṁ vutte, aññataro paribbājako vajjiyamāhitaṁ gahapatiṁ etadavoca: “āgamehi tvaṁ, gahapati, yassa tvaṁ samaṇassa gotamassa vaṇṇaṁ bhāsati, samaṇo gotamo venayiko appaññattiko”ti?

When he said this, one of the wanderers said to him,Evaṁ vutte, aññataro paribbājako vajjiyamāhitaṁ gahapatiṁ etadavoca: “Hold on, householder! That ascetic Gotama who you praise is an exterminator who refrains from making statements.”“āgamehi tvaṁ, gahapati, yassa tvaṁ samaṇassa gotamassa vaṇṇaṁ bhāsati, samaṇo gotamo venayiko appaññattiko”ti?

“On this point, also, I reasonably respond to the venerables.The Buddha has stated ‘This is skillful’ and‘This is unskillful’.So when it comes to what is skillful and unskillful the Buddha makes a statement.He is not an exterminator who refrains from making statements.”

“Etthapāhaṁ, bhante, āyasmante vakkhāmi sahadhammena: ‘idaṁ kusalan’ti, bhante, bhagavatā paññattaṁ; ‘idaṁ akusalan’ti, bhante, bhagavatā paññattaṁ. Iti kusalākusalaṁ bhagavā paññāpayamāno sapaññattiko bhagavā; na so bhagavā venayiko appaññattiko”ti.

“On this point, also, I reasonably respond to the venerables.“Etthapāhaṁ, bhante, āyasmante vakkhāmi sahadhammena: The Buddha has stated ‘This is skillful’ and‘idaṁ kusalan’ti, bhante, bhagavatā paññattaṁ; ‘This is unskillful’.‘idaṁ akusalan’ti, bhante, bhagavatā paññattaṁ. So when it comes to what is skillful and unskillful the Buddha makes a statement.Iti kusalākusalaṁ bhagavā paññāpayamāno sapaññattiko bhagavā; He is not an exterminator who refrains from making statements.”na so bhagavā venayiko appaññattiko”ti.

When this was said, those wanderers sat silent, dismayed, shoulders drooping, downcast, depressed, with nothing to say.Seeing this, Vajjiyamāhita rose from his seat. He went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side,and informed the Buddha of all they had discussed.

Evaṁ vutte te paribbājakā tuṇhībhūtā maṅkubhūtā pattakkhandhā adhomukhā pajjhāyantā appaṭibhānā nisīdiṁsu. Atha kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati te paribbājake tuṇhībhūte maṅkubhūte pattakkhandhe adhomukhe pajjhāyante appaṭibhāne viditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati yāvatako ahosi tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ kathāsallāpo taṁ sabbaṁ bhagavato ārocesi.

When this was said, those wanderers sat silent, dismayed, shoulders drooping, downcast, depressed, with nothing to say.Evaṁ vutte te paribbājakā tuṇhībhūtā maṅkubhūtā pattakkhandhā adhomukhā pajjhāyantā appaṭibhānā nisīdiṁsu. Seeing this, Vajjiyamāhita rose from his seat. He went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side,Atha kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati te paribbājake tuṇhībhūte maṅkubhūte pattakkhandhe adhomukhe pajjhāyante appaṭibhāne viditvā uṭṭhāyāsanā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. and informed the Buddha of all they had discussed.Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vajjiyamāhito gahapati yāvatako ahosi tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ kathāsallāpo taṁ sabbaṁ bhagavato ārocesi.

“Good, good, householder!That’s how you should legitimately and completely refute those futile men from time to time.Householder, I don’t say that all mortifications should be undergone.But I don’t say that no mortifications should be undergone.I don’t say that all observances should be undertaken.But I don’t say that no observances should be undertaken.I don’t say that all efforts should be tried.But I don’t say that no efforts should be tried.I don’t say that everything should be given up.But I don’t say that nothing should be given up.I don’t say that you should be liberated with all kinds of freedom.But I don’t say that you should not be liberated with any kind of freedom.

“Sādhu sādhu, gahapati. Evaṁ kho te, gahapati, moghapurisā kālena kālaṁ sahadhammena suniggahitaṁ niggahetabbā. Nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ tapaṁ tapitabbanti vadāmi; na ca panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ tapaṁ na tapitabbanti vadāmi; nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ samādānaṁ samāditabbanti vadāmi; na panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ samādānaṁ na samāditabbanti vadāmi; nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ padhānaṁ padahitabbanti vadāmi; na panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ padhānaṁ na padahitabbanti vadāmi; nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbo paṭinissaggo paṭinissajjitabboti vadāmi. Na panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbo paṭinissaggo na paṭinissajjitabboti vadāmi; nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbā vimutti vimuccitabbāti vadāmi; na panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbā vimutti na vimuccitabbāti vadāmi.

“Good, good, householder!“Sādhu sādhu, gahapati. That’s how you should legitimately and completely refute those futile men from time to time.Evaṁ kho te, gahapati, moghapurisā kālena kālaṁ sahadhammena suniggahitaṁ niggahetabbā. Householder, I don’t say that all mortifications should be undergone.Nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ tapaṁ tapitabbanti vadāmi; But I don’t say that no mortifications should be undergone.na ca panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ tapaṁ na tapitabbanti vadāmi; I don’t say that all observances should be undertaken.nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ samādānaṁ samāditabbanti vadāmi; But I don’t say that no observances should be undertaken.na panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ samādānaṁ na samāditabbanti vadāmi; I don’t say that all efforts should be tried.nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ padhānaṁ padahitabbanti vadāmi; But I don’t say that no efforts should be tried.na panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbaṁ padhānaṁ na padahitabbanti vadāmi; I don’t say that everything should be given up.nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbo paṭinissaggo paṭinissajjitabboti vadāmi. But I don’t say that nothing should be given up.Na panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbo paṭinissaggo na paṭinissajjitabboti vadāmi; I don’t say that you should be liberated with all kinds of freedom.nāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbā vimutti vimuccitabbāti vadāmi; But I don’t say that you should not be liberated with any kind of freedom.na panāhaṁ, gahapati, sabbā vimutti na vimuccitabbāti vadāmi.

When undergoing certain mortifications, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t undergo those mortifications.When undergoing certain mortifications, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should undergo those mortifications.

Yañhi, gahapati, tapaṁ tapato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpaṁ tapaṁ na tapitabbanti vadāmi. Yañca khvassa, gahapati, tapaṁ tapato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti, kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpaṁ tapaṁ tapitabbanti vadāmi.

When undergoing certain mortifications, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t undergo those mortifications.Yañhi, gahapati, tapaṁ tapato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpaṁ tapaṁ na tapitabbanti vadāmi. When undergoing certain mortifications, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should undergo those mortifications.Yañca khvassa, gahapati, tapaṁ tapato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti, kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpaṁ tapaṁ tapitabbanti vadāmi.

When undertaking certain observances, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t undertake those observances.When undertaking certain observances, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should undertake those observances.

Yañhi, gahapati, samādānaṁ samādiyato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpaṁ samādānaṁ na samāditabbanti vadāmi. Yañca khvassa, gahapati, samādānaṁ samādiyato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti, kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpaṁ samādānaṁ samāditabbanti vadāmi.

When undertaking certain observances, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t undertake those observances.Yañhi, gahapati, samādānaṁ samādiyato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpaṁ samādānaṁ na samāditabbanti vadāmi. When undertaking certain observances, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should undertake those observances.Yañca khvassa, gahapati, samādānaṁ samādiyato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti, kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpaṁ samādānaṁ samāditabbanti vadāmi.

When trying certain efforts, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t try those efforts.When trying certain efforts, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should try those efforts.

Yañhi, gahapati, padhānaṁ padahato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpaṁ padhānaṁ na padahitabbanti vadāmi. Yañca khvassa, gahapati, padhānaṁ padahato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpaṁ padhānaṁ padahitabbanti vadāmi.

When trying certain efforts, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t try those efforts.Yañhi, gahapati, padhānaṁ padahato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpaṁ padhānaṁ na padahitabbanti vadāmi. When trying certain efforts, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should try those efforts.Yañca khvassa, gahapati, padhānaṁ padahato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpaṁ padhānaṁ padahitabbanti vadāmi.

When giving up certain things, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t give up those things.When giving up certain things, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should give up those things.

Yañhi, gahapati, paṭinissaggaṁ paṭinissajjato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpo paṭinissaggo na paṭinissajjitabboti vadāmi. Yañca khvassa, gahapati, paṭinissaggaṁ paṭinissajjato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti, kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpo paṭinissaggo paṭinissajjitabboti vadāmi.

When giving up certain things, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t give up those things.Yañhi, gahapati, paṭinissaggaṁ paṭinissajjato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpo paṭinissaggo na paṭinissajjitabboti vadāmi. When giving up certain things, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should give up those things.Yañca khvassa, gahapati, paṭinissaggaṁ paṭinissajjato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti, kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpo paṭinissaggo paṭinissajjitabboti vadāmi.

When being liberated with certain kinds of freedom, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t be liberated with those kinds of freedom.When being liberated with certain kinds of freedom, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should be liberated with those kinds of freedom.”

Yañhi, gahapati, vimuttiṁ vimuccato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpā vimutti na vimuccitabbāti vadāmi. Yañca khvassa, gahapati, vimuttiṁ vimuccato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti, kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpā vimutti vimuccitabbāti vadāmī”ti.

When being liberated with certain kinds of freedom, unskillful qualities grow while skillful qualities decline. I say that you shouldn’t be liberated with those kinds of freedom.Yañhi, gahapati, vimuttiṁ vimuccato akusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, kusalā dhammā parihāyanti, evarūpā vimutti na vimuccitabbāti vadāmi. When being liberated with certain kinds of freedom, unskillful qualities decline while skillful qualities grow. I say that you should be liberated with those kinds of freedom.”Yañca khvassa, gahapati, vimuttiṁ vimuccato akusalā dhammā parihāyanti, kusalā dhammā abhivaḍḍhanti, evarūpā vimutti vimuccitabbāti vadāmī”ti.

Then, not long after Vajjiyamāhita had left, the Buddha addressed the mendicants:“Mendicants, even a mendicant who for a long time has had little dust in their eye in this teaching and training would legitimately and completely refute those wanderers of other religions just as the householder Vajjiyamāhita did.”

Atha kho bhagavā acirapakkante vajjiyamāhite gahapatimhi bhikkhū āmantesi: “yopi so, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dīgharattaṁ apparajakkho imasmiṁ dhammavinaye, sopi evamevaṁ aññatitthiye paribbājake sahadhammena suniggahitaṁ niggaṇheyya yathā taṁ vajjiyamāhitena gahapatinā niggahitā”ti.

Then, not long after Vajjiyamāhita had left, the Buddha addressed the mendicants:Atha kho bhagavā acirapakkante vajjiyamāhite gahapatimhi bhikkhū āmantesi: “Mendicants, even a mendicant who for a long time has had little dust in their eye in this teaching and training would legitimately and completely refute those wanderers of other religions just as the householder Vajjiyamāhita did.”“yopi so, bhikkhave, bhikkhu dīgharattaṁ apparajakkho imasmiṁ dhammavinaye, sopi evamevaṁ aññatitthiye paribbājake sahadhammena suniggahitaṁ niggaṇheyya yathā taṁ vajjiyamāhitena gahapatinā niggahitā”ti.